A couple "Statements of Faith" below. One from Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan. The other is the Lausanne Covenant, drawn up in 1974. Here's a brief wikipedia article explaining the background. There's also an "organization" (I guess) called the Lausanne Movement.
I post them both here in their entirety to illustrate the difference between narrative and systematic theologies, and how they might translate into different "statements of faith." Interesting to note the differences.
Also, my friend John has posted something similar on his blog, comparing the Nicene Crede with a quote from Milton Friedman. If you have time, compare all four statements and post your reactions.
I'll post mine over the next few days.
Here's my first observation about the differences between these two statements.
ReplyDeleteThe Mars Hill statement is about providing context. It seeks to provide a context for our lives within a larger story that continues to unfold. It invites us to play our part, whatever that part may be. The story? "God is restoring a broken world. Come find your place in this great work."
The Lausanne statement is about convincing (evangelism). It seeks to draw subsribers into a uniform effort to present the information (the gospel) to as many people as possible as quickly as possible. The story? "The sand is almost out of the timer. Commit yourself to evangelizing the world--now, before it's too late."
Dude, I can't read that fast. I'll post some thoughts over the next couple days. Looks interesting.
ReplyDeleteI just finished reading both of these statements. I think they are both good. I like the way the first one recounts the foundational background - back to Abraham (and before) - similar to what Stephen did, I believe.
ReplyDeleteI just wish it had scripture to explain/illustrate/backup statements the way the second one did...because it raised a couple of questions which that might have helped answer.
Hey Luke, Thanks for posting again. How are things on the other side of the planet? Did it make your spine tingle to spend the Christmas season just a few miles from Bethlehem?
ReplyDeleteYou both picked up on the "no proof texts" thing in the Mars Hill statement. It's no mistake that there are no verses there. I think it reflects an aversion to "proof-texting."
I'm still trying to think how to respond.
jon- How are things here? Pretty good. It has blessing to be here because of the believers I have been encouraged by, and the things God has shown me from His word.
ReplyDeleteI spent my Christmas with a couple of different families from the Church here. However, since they are now in Eliat for New Years, I spent the New Year's night with a Muslim friend who invited me over with his family. Boy, is the Arab food good here :) Haha. He told me shortly before I left that not all Arabs are terrorists. He said, "I give you food, not bombs." We laughed together at this. Even Muslims are real people and are just like I was without Christ. They need to be loved because Christ loved me when I was just like them, unaware of my sinful condition :)
Yes, I have had times where God has overwhlemed me with his mercy and goodness. I wished that I could be home with the family like years past, but I think the Lord wanted me here.
I'm looking forward to your response.
mmmm... bacon....
ReplyDeleteRandom thought: What if we are supposed to create the Kingdom here and then God will resurrect all the old saints to enjoy it with us?
ReplyDeleteWhat if we are not in the Kingdom yet and we are still waiting for the lion and the lamb to sit next to each other? Are we capable of making a Kingdom described like the Bible says?
ReplyDeleteWhat if the coming of the kingdom requires simply an opening of the spiritual eyes? Jesus seemed to think it was here already.
ReplyDeleteWhat if God is in the process of revealing it to us, and He has invited us into the work of unveiling it?
So many good questions, so little free time to bat them around.
How is it that you think Jesus thought it was already come? I am continually pointed to Acts 1. This seems to make what was suppose to be a coming kingdom put on hold until He comes back again...
ReplyDeleteThose are good verses on the kingdom. It seems as if there are two kinds of kingdoms being spoken about here: A physical one concerning Christ's physical glorified presense on earth, and the spiritual kingdom which is that of those who are in the light and those who are in the darkness (those in chains and those in Christ). Yeah, the verses you listed don't say that the physical kingdom has come. The verses concerning his physical kingdom may point to the nearness, possibility of it coming soon, or even "some seeing" His kingdom (matt. 16-through the transfiguration) but only a "spiritual" kingdom was present at Christ first arrival to earth and still remains that way.
ReplyDeleteSo now we find ourselves standing at a great fork in the road. One arrow reads "REVEALED, INSPIRED, INERRANT, AUTHORITATIVE, COMPLETE."
ReplyDeleteThe other reads "ON-GOING, INCOMPLETE, LIVING, MYTHIC, MYSTERIOUS."
It's all about the definition of "Word of God," isn't it? If the bible is the end of God's message to us, well then the fundamentalists are right in saying "God said it, I believe it, that settles it." Your job is to know it, and then do what it says. Life is summed up in this word: obey.
If on the other hand, God continues to speak and move and intervene and rescue and thwart and invite, then that somehow changes our perspective on the phrase "word of God."
Maybe He's still at it.
Maybe there's more to the story.
In fact, maybe the story is still being written!
And so we find ourselves back at the very first post of this entire blog--the theme, even.
Selah.
"In fact, maybe the story is still being written!"
ReplyDeleteSounds Mormon...or Islamic. :-) Remember how they added to it.
I'm guess'n you don't mean it that way. :-)
Let's make a distinction between the "story" and the "book" that has been written about it.
ReplyDeleteI will accept that the book is complete--it doesn't need any more added to it. But the book isn't the story. (Frankly, the book isn't The Word. That's Jesus.)
The story continues. Jesus is doing stuff. It's all still playing out.
We're not stuck in a cosmic holding pattern until the next big event (the "rapture" or the "tribulation," depending on your theology). The cosmic holding pattern as presented to me all my life can be summed up as Repent, Believe, Obey, Evangelize.
Ah, but the New Covenant makes it possible for all sorts of life, activity, restoration, change and kingdom-building.
Jesus' offer was "life to the full." I now believe He talked a lot about a quality and a perception of this life--before death.
And after death, a resurrection to another life like the one we are living now--with dirt and rocks and grass and leaves and wind and water. And great friends, and conquest, and building stuff.
All in a fully-restored state, like the original Garden. (Read Isaiah 65.)
That's what I really meant to say.
O.K. I got it.
ReplyDeleteI was pretty sure it wasn't the way it came across to me at first but wanted it put a different way to be sure.
I've heard the word story so much and it has had a connotation for me that has tripped up my thinking, I suppose, because it has meant not necessarily what is true.
However,
the other day I was watching a lot of people I didn't know and thought "Look at all those people - all those different stories represented here!" I feel sure most of them were mainly stories lacking Christ centered lives but I think I started to understand...somewhat. It has just been used so much. Maybe it was a matter of not seeing the forest through the trees.
"Look at all those people - all those different stories represented here!"
ReplyDeleteHoly smokes. That, JP, is the coolest thing I've heard for months. Somewhere in that statement is the meaning of life.
What's really going on here?
Mythic reality.
That's an interesting thought, especially for me, sitting here in the DIA with people running around from all over the United States/World. I'm constantly curiously wondering where people are going and what they're thinking and what place they're at in their 'story'.
ReplyDeleteI know what you're talking about, Aaron. My head spins at airports, especially international airports.
ReplyDeleteBut then my kids will tell you that my head spins most of the time.
I sometimes wonder if it's the coffee...nah.